Water
Transcript:
Emma: Hello, welcome to the Sacred Story Podcast. My name is Emma and today we will be talking about the relationship to elementals, specifically winds and water, portrayed in three different traditions: the Ojibwe story of Nanabush and the Thunderers, the Greek story of Odysseus trying to make it home through the sea while Poseidon makes an attempt on his life, and the Judeo-Christian stories of Jesus calming the storm and walking on water.
In the Ojibwe story of Nanabush and the Thunderers as told by Edna Manitowabi in YouTube video format, Nanabush was wandering the forest and noticed everyone was frightened and moving around frantically. There was rain, flooding, and lots of ruckus and noise disrupting the way of life there. Nanabush asked the Warriors, but they wouldn’t go because as stated at 1:57, they thought the Thunderers too powerful and don’t want to mess with them. Maybe there might be some underlying fear of why they don’t want to mess with them, or intimidation.
So Nanabush decided to confront the Thunderers. He asked the West Wind to help him up the mountain, and they did, as they have an implied relationship with Nanabush since there were no questions asked or any push back, they just took Nanabush up there.
In the video at 2:46, Nanabush arrives and the Thunderers say, “Who dares approach me? Who has the courage to come and confront me?” Though that sounds threatening and I picture it in a loud and thunderous voice, Nanabush shows no fear. While the forest people might have been too afraid to talk to the Thunderers, Nanabush doesn’t bat an eye. He speaks for his people, letting the Thunderers know about the downpour of water and how nothing is growing. As stated by Edna Manitowabi at 3:33, the Thunderers didn’t realize they were overpowering and said they would stop after he visited and spent some time with them.
Nanabush was not afraid of the Thunderers who embody water and created a peaceful relationship with them for a mutual want of balance in the natural world.
On the contrary, in the Greek Odyssey by Homer, Odysseus is trying to make it off Calypso’s island and is attempting to travel home over the sea while Poseidon brings on a storm that terrifies Odysseus. On page 161, “Poseidon “rammed the clouds together—both hands clutching his trident—churned the waves into chaos, whopping all the gales form (from?) every quarter” lines 321-323.
Unlike Nanabush who is not afraid to confront the powerful Thunderers for the betterment of the forest people, Odysseus is afraid. Page 161 states, “and Odysseus’ knees quaked, his spirit too; numb with fear he spoke to his own great heart: ‘Wretched man—what becomes of me now, at last?’” lines 327-329. Odysseus hardly even tries to keep his moral up as he cries out, “Now what a wretched death I’m doomed to die!” on page 162 line 345.
He is pitied and given a scarf to keep him alive by Cadmus’ daughter, Leucothea, and Athena, Poseidon’s niece, stops his storm. Athena fears no wrath from her uncle unlike Odysseus. On page 164 in lines 421-423, “Athena countered [Poseidon]… The rest of the winds she stopped right in their tracks, commanding them all to hush now, go to sleep.”
This imagery reminds me of the Judeo-Christian story of Jesus sleeping in the boat and calming the storm. The four gospel writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John cover a lot of the same events but share different perspectives or details on them. I have a special guest who can help with understanding the four gospels and their writers.
Emma: Joining me on the podcast today is Charlie, a good friend of mine who has learned gospel scholarship from theology classes at St. Thomas. Thanks for being here, Char.
Charley: Yeah, of course, happy to be here.
Emma: Yeah, would you help explain for us why there are 4 gospels written by 4 different people, all included in the Bible, some with the same stories, but some with differences or omissions.
Charley: Yeah, of course. So this is something that I immediately questioned when I was 1st studying, at St. Thomas because in my mind, if something didn’t automatically match, it wasn’t true. So I was like, there’s things missing. And so, What I eventually learned from my professor who is also a priest, is that we can think of each gospel instead of being exactly the same recollection of the life of Jesus Christ. is that they’re 4 different perspectives, and that each person or author has their own take. On the different events that happened. And so it’s not that they are changing the events at all, but each of them with their own personalities, background, and personal relationship with Jesus Christ, focus on different aspects of certain stories. So they don’t have to contradict each other. And I think that’s the most important thing to emphasize for readers is that something in the gospel of Mark will not contradict in John. It just might not be there.
Emma: Could you give us a little information on Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the gospel writers themselves?
Charley: Yeah, of course. So, Matthew is formerly a tax collector, and this is something that is very… frowned upon is an understatement in the Jewish community. They were very oppressed. And as Matthew was a tax collector, essentially against his own people, he seemed to be like the last person worth, you know, following the Lord. And so in his gospel, there is such an emphasis on Jesus’ actions. He’s the one that really collects all details possible. He’s really the one that gets everything in there. So Mark followed Peter around, and he was kind of like his note taker scribe slash friend. And a lot of Mark is following both Jesus, but also Peter’s role in that because a lot of the things that were going on, like Peter was there for it. So even if Peter isn’t directly mentioned, he’s one of the main characters in the Gospel of Mark. Luke is really interesting because he was formerly a physician. So if you think of all of these guys who have different backgrounds, Luke is like formerly a doctor. So his gospel, you can kind of see is kind of the mind of a scholar, and it’s just very straightforward. If you want to think of doctor’s notes, to keep them all apart. And John, he was very close with the Lord. His brother James, the 2 of them, were, were very close. They would have Jesus and some of the disciples over at their parents’ house, like, they were all very, close and he has kind of an interesting gospel. His kind of stands apart because he doesn’t have a lot of overlap with the others as much. He has a lot of stuff that isn’t added, but it’s not in the others. And with his gospel, it was written a little bit later, and it was kind of assumed you were already familiar with the other three. So a lot of his is like different metaphors, different events, more specific things like with Jesus is like near the crucifixion. And so, his perspective was more just adding in other details or stories that aren’t really in the other three. So, that’s kind of the basis of who the 4 of them are, but all very devoted followers of Jesus for sure.
Emma: The story of Jesus sleeping in the boat and calming the storm is in all the gospels except for John, I noticed, in my research, and Jesus walking on the water, that story is in all gospels except for Luke. For that one, only Matthew includes Peter momentarily walking on the water out to Jesus. Why do you think some gospel writers either omitted the story of Jesus walking on the water or did not include Peter walking on the water?
Charley: Yeah, that is something that, as everyone has their own interpretation, there’s, there’s no way anyone could be confidently right. Why it was left out or left in? But I definitely have a couple theories. For starters with Matthew, including Peter momentarily walking out on the water. He really emphasizes faith and not being in fear, and that story is really captured when Peter goes out into the waves with him. And the words that Jesus says to him when, when Peter takes his eyes off of Jesus, he starts to go into the water, and when Jesus saves him, he says, “Oh, you of little faith, why did you doubt?” And Matthew is the one who really focuses on the genealogy of Christ. He has all of these, direct quotes, he often references the Old Testament. And I think part of that is because he is also reminding himself not to doubt he’s reminding himself to have faith. He’s reminding himself that Jesus is constantly merciful because his past is really hard for him to wrestle with. And, we can only imagine that when all these disciples were getting together, that he was more of an outcast because his profession kind of isolated him from his original, like, ethnic and religious community because he was taxing his own people. So, that’s kind of more of like a personal theory of why he would include that. Now, the other gospel is only focusing on Jesus walking on water. Again, to put that focus on him, but one of the books does not even include it at all, and that’s John. And I had mentioned earlier that some of John’s gospel is distinctively different. And if I were to give an answer, not definite, but my, my strongest guess is that John likes to add new things. He likes to add layers to stories, and it was already such a strong theme in the other gospels. He’s like, it’s assumed that you are familiar with the gospels. You already know it. I am not gonna include it. Because these gospels, they weren’t written in the moment necessarily. They weren’t written right after. In fact, they thought Jesus’ return was going to be so much sooner, that it wasn’t until, you know, a few decades were going by, that it was like, we should start writing this stuff down. So, John’s gospel is at the final of them, and I think in his mind, it’s assumed that they’re familiar with the story. And he just included other things instead. So that would be some of my explanations and also my own personal, uh, theories on the matter.
Emma: Thank you.
Charley: Mm hmm.
Emma: It is great that these stories too have a couple different voices. I notice in relation to the Odyssey, we don’t know, really who Homer is. Homer isn’t given a last name on the, book of the Odyssey as the author, and we don’t know if Homer was a man, woman, or multiple people. It is a type of collection. The Odyssey is of oral stories that have been written down and passed down. And I also see that similarity in the story of Nana Bush and the Thunderers, where that is also an oral tradition that has been passed down through generations. There is no set, one author. I’m not even sure if it’s written down in a specific text. But, yeah, thank you very much for joining me, Charley.
Charley: Yeah, it’s been great. Thanks for having me.
Emma: Now I will share the specific text that Charley and I were discussing.
The disciples and Jesus are out in a boat and a huge storm comes up. As Matthew writes in 8:24, “Without warning, a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat.” Luke 8:23 says they were in “great danger.” Following that, Mark writes in 4:38, “Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion.” Not only was Jesus asleep, but he was comfy, further emphasizing a lack of fear. Mark continues, “The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?” The boat nearly swamped with water, as Mark says, didn’t wake Jesus, the disciples had to. I imagine them physically needing to shake him awake. Then in Mark 4:39, Jesus, “got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Peace! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.
Mark states the disciples were terrified.” Matthew (8:27) describes the disciples as amazed, Luke says something similar as “in fear and amazement” (8:25). (Note: The story is not in the book of John.) While the disciples were terrified of the storm, worried they were going to perish, Jesus was not frightened in the slightest as he holds authority over the wind and waves. They were also in awe of his effortless power.
There is another story where Jesus calms a storm and the disciple Peter momentarily walks out on the water to him. It was an evening and the disciples were already out in their boat. In Mark 6:48, “He saw the disciples straining at the oars, because the wind was against them.” John 6:21 notes that they rowed three or three and a half miles with their oars before Jesus walked out to them. When the disciples saw a figure walking across the water and they were afraid that it was a ghost.
In Matthew 14:27, Jesus lets them know it’s him and Peter wants him to prove it. He tells Jesus to ask him to come out on the water. “29 Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!” 31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him.” As soon as Peter and Jesus climbed back in the boat, the wind and waves calmed. It is a human and mortal reaction to be afraid in that situation. (Side note: In Mark and John, Peter is not mentioned to have walked out on the water to Jesus. The story is not in the book of Luke.)
Between these three traditions, we see our main characters either fearing the powers of the wind and waves, or not being intimidated by them at all. Nanabush was not afraid of the Thunderers. He created a relationship with them. Odysseus was very afraid of the water and Poseidon’s power over it. However, Athena contradicted that power and stilled the storm to protect mortal Odysseus. Jesus, holding the power over the wind and waves, he was completely unphased by any bad storm. He physically stepped on top of it and walked on it, no big deal. Contrary to that, Peter and the disciples were very afraid of and intimidated by the storms.